Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

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Seta
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Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#1 Post by Seta » Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:27 am

Hi,

Now I am using Sony APS-C cameras (Sony NEX-5N and A5100) and bought a cheap (20€) Nikon 1 J1 but I am thinking about getting a m4/3 camera as the main one for my scope, the 2x crop factor seems ideal for nikon CFN lens line.

I do not need things like a viewfinder or but I would like to have good DR, IR remote control and EFSC

any recommendations?

Javier

jfiresto
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Re: Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#2 Post by jfiresto » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:18 pm

[Sorry about the spurious post. I will follow the same thread already in progress over at photomacrography.net.]
Last edited by jfiresto on Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-John

Seta
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Re: Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#3 Post by Seta » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:28 pm

jfiresto wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:18 pm
EFSC = Electronic First Shutter Curtain?
Are you after new or used?
Shoot raw?
Do you need high resolution, live monitoring?
Would a wired remote / computer usb / smart phone wifi / tablet wifi control be o.k.? (Circle all that apply.)

If the latter things, do you need to remotely set everything or just the basics?
- EFSC or full electronic shutter, no vibrations
- I would rather new or b-stock with warranty, I need sensor to be in excellent condition. No scratches
- Yes, RAW. I do not know if pixel shift images come out as RAW or JPGs
- I do not need computer tethering or smartphone control (HDMI out would be more than enough); IR remote preferred but cable remote also OK

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Re: Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#4 Post by zzffnn » Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:12 pm

Do not get Olympus E-M1 mk1. Its images are noticeably worse in full electronic shutter mode, than EFSC.

Focus stacking with EFSC won't work very well, if your subject is in thick water mount under high magnification. Even that 2nd shutter shock may (or may not) move the subject and ruin the next image stack.

If I remember correctly, EM-10 mk2 produced good images with full electronic shutter.

I have not tested other m4/3 cameras.

DR is never a strong suit for small sensors. Though DIC and stacking will help.

Many modern m4/3 cameras allow wifi control using smartphones, such than you don't need IR remote. Some of them have HDMI output.

I am not sure if pixel shift (high resolution mode) will produce difference in high magnification above 10x NA 0.25, as we are very much limited by diffraction for resolution (the objective lens itself is already maxed out at high magnification for resolution).

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Re: Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#5 Post by MicroBob » Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:51 pm

A tiltable display may be an advantage, dependin gon microscope setup.

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Re: Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#6 Post by Seta » Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:44 pm

zzffnn wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:12 pm
Do not get Olympus E-M1 mk1. Its images are noticeably worse in full electronic shutter mode, than EFSC.´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´
I was looking at the E-M 10 mkII (no pixel shift) and E-M1 MkII (pixel shift), I will check panasonic too.

I am pretty sure second curtain will not shake the BHT, I am using a NEX5N and has not produced that effect so far;
at the end I went for the Apo lenses, that is 10/0.45 and 20/0.75. Another benefit of pixel shift is lower noise output, which is good for stacking
MicroBob wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:51 pm
A tiltable display may be an advantage, dependin gon microscope setup.
I use a full HD 23" TV on the wall via HDMI but yes, tiltable is better

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Re: Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#7 Post by hans » Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:58 pm

zzffnn wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:12 pm
Do not get Olympus E-M1 mk1. Its images are noticeably worse in full electronic shutter mode, than EFSC.
The main difference I heard about when looking into this (not Olympus-specific) was the rate at which reset is done across the sensor at start of exposure -- matching mechanical shutter in EFCS mode vs. slower to match sensor readout in fully electronic mode. So there can be more rolling shutter sort of effect on moving objects. Is that the difference with the E-M1 or is there something else going on? I have not noticed obvious differences other than the rolling shutter effect with the Panasonic GX850 I recently got but have not done any really careful comparisons yet.
MicroBob wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:51 pm
A tiltable display may be an advantage, dependin gon microscope setup.
Some models have no way to manually override the orientation of the display so the UI ends up upside down if used with the camera pointing down and screen tilted up ~90 degrees to vertical:
https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... =9&t=11821
Seta wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:44 pm
I use a full HD 23" TV on the wall via HDMI but yes, tiltable is better
On some lower-end models the HDMI output only works for playback, not live view, something else to check.

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Re: Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#8 Post by Seta » Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:55 pm

Wops!!; I just made the maths and cropping the the 24mpx sensor of the Sony A5100 to match m4/3 size gives me 14mpx (Close to 16mpx most m/3 cameras have), cropping it 1" sensor gives 7.7mpx The EOS M6 mkII cropped to m4/3 size gives almost 20mpx
I bought a cheap Nikon 1 J1, I will run some test against Sony A5100 cropped to size and study the results before jumping yet to another camera ecosystem..

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Re: Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#9 Post by zzffnn » Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:02 pm

Javier,

that crop ratio sounds about right. If your current mirrorless APSC camera works well, there is probably no point to change it.

My Nikon Optiphot did get shaken at high magnification by my camera's 2nd mechanical shutter; I saw it in flipped up camera LCD. But my water mount was not too thin and my table was probably not weighted / dampened well. And I did not do stacking to see its effect. So you may be fine there.

EFCS has been used successfully for some live microscopic organisms in water under high magnification.

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Re: Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#10 Post by zzffnn » Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:07 pm

Hans,

I did compared E-M1 on the same subject at the same time, full electronic shutter vs EFCS. Then pixel peeped. EFCS resolved quite a bit better. Full electronic shutter seemed to produce much more noise grains, at the same iso.

I have Panasonic G85 before, did the same test and did NOT see a significant difference. G85 has a much newer sensor though, so there may have been improvements there.

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Re: Looking for a good m4/3 camera for focus stacking

#11 Post by Seta » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:05 pm

zzffnn wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:02 pm
My Nikon Optiphot did get shaken at high magnification by my camera's 2nd mechanical shutter; I saw it in flipped up camera LCD. But my water mount was not too thin and my table was probably not weighted / dampened well. And I did not do stacking to see its effect. So you may be fine there.
Are you sure it was not just the camera shaking and not the scope?, I seriously doubt the shutter can affect a heavy microscope. I am sure us touching the focus knob is worse than the shutter shake regarding shaking the scope.

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