4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

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The QCC
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4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#1 Post by The QCC » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:44 pm

This time I used the same camera, Canon XS (1000D), OMAX 2.5x adapter and a commercially prepared Helianthus stem specimen.
The microscopes used were a Labomed Infinity PLAN Polarizing scope and a upgraded vintage Bausch & Lomb. The obj. were PLAN 4x made in China. The difference being the Labomed 4x is infinity corrected.
The upgrades to the B&L are PLAN obj. and a 10w LED light source.
The comparison was to help decide if I need a better 4x obj. on the Labomed.

Photos 1 - 2 are down sampled 3MB RAW images with no other adjustments.
Photos 5-6 are darkfield examples.
The Labomed has no provision for adding a filter between the polarizer and the condenser, so the analyzer/polarizer acts as a pseudo darkfield stop.
An 8mm stop was used for the B&L photo. Other stops were used, but that may be a future post.
Photos 9-12 show the effects of the adjustments made in Adobe Lightroom.
Click the photo to see the presentation
Click the photo to see the presentation
HelianthusStem_XSOLP_4x_200_2.jpg (67.23 KiB) Viewed 9687 times
[/url]
My observations?
Both objectives leave a lot to be desired. An Olympus infinity 4x Plan Acro is on my shopping list.

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#2 Post by gekko » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:40 pm

I think the illumination is not optimal, and very "glary" in the center. Perhaps a diffusing filter below the condenser might help. As you know, condensers not equipped with a flip down or removable top lens don't usually work well with 4x or lower.
In your previous comparison, I said I thought the B&L image looked better. Could the condenser have been better adjusted on the B&L? The Labomed image, to my eyes, looked as though the condenser aperture were closed too far or the condenser was racked down to limit the aperture resulting in thick "lines".

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Dondenser position

#3 Post by The QCC » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:39 pm

For the Labomed, the top condenser is out and raised to its maximum position.
The condenser aperture is stopped down very slightly (until the edges show shadow, then backed off) and the field aperture is adjusted for best contrast resolution.

For the Bausch & Lomb, the condenser is at its highest position and the condenser aperture is adjusted for the best contrast and resolution.

The 10w LED on the B&L already has two diffusers. One acrylic milk white and a frosted glass above the LED.
And

here is another comparison with and without a gekko in the filter holder.
Click the photo to view the images
Click the photo to view the images
OnionRootStem-XSOB_Popl_5x_dif_202.jpg (33.79 KiB) Viewed 9677 times
[/url]

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#4 Post by gekko » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:24 pm

I think the ones with the gekko in the filter holder are much more evenly illuminated and look to this gekko to be much improved :)

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#5 Post by The QCC » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:32 pm

An here is an improved gekko diffusion filter just 18mm above the LED convex lens.
RAW image, no adjustments
Improved diffusion filter.
Improved diffusion filter.
CornSeed_XSOB_Plan_4x_dif2_003.jpg (200.49 KiB) Viewed 9672 times

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#6 Post by JimT » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:55 pm

What a good study. First off, your sections are outstanding!!!!

Of the first group the B&L 1&2 images are better - IMHO. Also the # 5 image is great.

I think the Gekko gekko additional diffusing filter gives much better illumination.

Thanks for posting.

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#7 Post by vasselle » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:35 pm

Bonjour a tous.
Pour ce servir de objectif 4 x il faut placer un filtre dépoli pour avoir un champ uniformément éclairé.
Sinon sans ce filtre image et clair dans le milieu est sombre sur la périphérie.
Car je possède un objectif plan 4 X Bresser et il est de très bonne qualité.
Mes avec ce genre objectif il faut surtout bien tout régler condenseur et la luminosité de image.
Cordialement seb
Microscope Leitz Laborlux k
Boitier EOS 1200D + EOS 1100D

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#8 Post by The QCC » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:17 pm

Gekko suggested placing the diffuser under the condenser, Essentially moving it above the intense light source.
To accomplish this without using the filter holder, I placed the filter in a set of macro lens rings.
Therefore, the diffuser is now called a "gekko".
B&L microscope with LED & diffuser
B&L microscope with LED & diffuser
P1010773.jpg (142.22 KiB) Viewed 9648 times
LED light with  diffuser
LED light with diffuser
P1010774.jpg (145.03 KiB) Viewed 9648 times
Sample of the "gekko" effect.
Sample of the "gekko" effect.
HobbySand_1NB_10x_100_obl.jpg (173.92 KiB) Viewed 9648 times

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#9 Post by gekko » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:52 pm

I'm glad it worked: the sample image appears to be evenly illuminated (at least to me). So now I am famous :oops: . By the way, I've found that different "white" plastic diffusers (or "gekkos" if you like) can have different effects on the color temperature of the light, so one should set custom white balance with the diffuser in place if one is being used.

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#10 Post by The QCC » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:20 pm

As a matter of habit I do a white balance every time I start and change the illumination level. LED or Halogen.

Yes, the illumination is now quite uniform. Placing the diffuser higher was the answer.
Thank you.

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#11 Post by JimT » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:07 pm

QCC, can you shoot RAW? In my case I leave WB on auto in the camera and adjust in post processing. For me it is simpler to adjust after I have looked at the preliminary image.

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#12 Post by gekko » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:31 pm

You can also use the eyedropper to get WB in the editor, as you know. The problem is that occasionally there would be no clear area to use to set WB after the fact in software (for example in plant sections or a "field" of algae that occupy the whole frame). My 2 cents' worth.

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#13 Post by The QCC » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:53 pm

JimT
Yes, all photos are shot in RAW mode with the exception of stacks. I use CombineZP and it does not accept RAW files.
Stitching is done with Microsoft ICE and it accepts RAW files.
The RAW files from the Canon 5D are approx 18MB and minimum compression JPEGs are approx. 9-12MB. I have oodles of disk space to save the RAW files.

My method of setting the white balance is to move the slide to a blank end area and use the EOS Utilities Custom White Balance eye dropper.
This works well for me as I do not use live specimens.

I do not use Auto White Balance as the camera seems to get confused with low levels of Halogen light.

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#14 Post by apochronaut » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:01 pm

There are a couple of things here, that make this test more an interpretive assessment rather than a critical assessment.

Even though the test subject is uniform, such stained commercially prepared slides tend to obscure some microscope characteristics and enhance others and these can vary from optical system to optical system. Traditionally, the best test subjects with which to determine optical performance are unstained samples . Diatoms have been used for years and are still one of the subjects of choice.

Older microscopes, tend not to have as defined a contrast level with average adjustment because they have been made through mathematical computation and empirical testing, rather than mathematical computation( or reverse engineering), computer ray tracing and empirical testing. Modern microscopes therefore maintain better image quality over a broader range of maladjustment. For this reason , older optical systems need to be very carefully adjusted to optimize their performance. This is the prime reason that novices find new microscopes better for them...it is simply because they don't know how to properly adjust an older one, so they appear to provide poorer quality, when in fact , properly used, they usually provide better quality. Additionally, although the lenses may be clean and clear, often the condition of the prisms in the head get neglected. It doesn't take very much in the way of airborn fine particulates over a few years, to leave a film on prisms and lower the contrast. All older microscopes , should have the head cleaned.

When the Bausch & Lomb model tested here was made,there were standard abbe condensers and wide field condensers. The standard practice in order to fill the field for low power objectives with a conventional abbe 1.25 N.A. condenser was to match the N.A. as closely as possible between the condenser and objective, by unthreading the top condenser lens. Using the lower lens only set at a low position, this reduces the N.A. of the condenser sufficiently and increases the breadth of the illumination field, so that the low power objectives achieve a good uniform background illumination and maximum contrast unobscured by scattered rays. The type of illumination is important here too. Not all illumination systems are created equal, and this is another factor that skews novice user choices towards microscopes with factory installed illuminators. Obviously it is hard to mess with those, whereas a microscope made to be used with a remote or understage illuminator, could have all sorts of imperfections in the illumination beam, depending on a large array of factors. This is a critical issue , when determining an optical systems performance.

Diffusing filters , are kind of a bandaid kind of compromise always. While they can sort out some problems of evenness, it is always at the cost of illumination intensity and contrast. Generally, if a diffusion filter is absolutely necessary , then it is an indication that something is wrong with the illuminator/ condenser set up and it is best to tackle that problem primarily.

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#15 Post by The QCC » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:27 pm

apochronaut

Thank you for the detailed information.
The only original parts left of the Bausch & Lomb microscope are the arm and focusing rack, tube and three obj. head and the base stage.
The B&L came with three eyepieces, 5, 10 & 15x, four obj. 4, 10, 49 & a 100x oil and a plano/concave mirror. The condenser had a screw off top lens as you mentioned.
The "new" B&L now has a Nikon PL 2.5x, eyepiece, the obj. Plan achromats, a mechanical stage, the condenser is a N.A. 1.25 Abbe and the light source a 10w LED.

All in all, a bastard configuration. The fact it works is probably an optical miracle, but it does work.
I mainly use obj. 10x or lower. On rare occasions I will play with the 40x obj.

The B&L is not my main microscope and is used mainly to check the opaqueness of thin sections during the polishing phase. The B&L is also used for fun things, like biological specimens and experiments that do nor require a polarizer in the light path.
Despite all the stuff I have done to the B&L, it still has some of the smoothest fine focusing I have used.

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Re: 4x obj. comparison. Back by popular request (1)

#16 Post by zzffnn » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:20 am

I agree with everything that apochronaut said.

If you really want to use frosted filter (instead of using only the bottom lens of condenser):

You can move the filter even closer to condenser by putty'ing it to the condenser's bottom. We all know that in photography theory, the closer your diffuser is to your subject, the more even the light is.

You will lose significant amount of light by using frosted filter instead of just condenser bottom lens. But it looks like you have reasonable amount of light for your 4x objective and subjects.

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