AmScope MU503B 5MP on Olympus BH2-BHTU

[Harold]

Would this camera be suitable for this microscope? If so, what adapters and photo eyepieces would be required? I have looked around at the alanwood.net/photography site but only found information for using a DSLR camera. Thanks.

[Scarodactyl]

Probably not. One of the bh2 series's limitations is which camera formats work well with it. Amscope cameras will have a 1/2.5" sensor, and nothing in the official lineup will let you resize a well corrected image down enough to fit such a small sensor. You would be stuck with a heavily cropped image or, if you go third party, a partially cropped and imperfectly corrected one.

[Dubious]

You could use it as an eyepiece camera, that is, take out an eyepiece and insert the MU503B to take photos, but you wouldn't have any way of correcting aberrations of the objective, since that requires an eyepiece or similar in the train. Still, as a quick solution while waiting for a better one, it would work, and for some types of images should work reasonably well. I used the MU503B that way with my Leitz Laborlux before I upgraded to a trinocular head. With its .5 reducing lens the MU503B maybe still didn't capture quite as much of the FOV as I would have liked, but worked reasonably ok. Here's a "quick and dirty" video of a vorticella shot that way using phase contrast:

https://youtu.be/ut8yP-N7WY4

[Harold]

Probably not. One of the bh2 series's limitations is which camera formats work well with it. Amscope cameras will have a 1/2.5" sensor, and nothing in the official lineup will let you resize a well corrected image down enough to fit such a small sensor. You would be stuck with a heavily cropped image or, if you go third party, a partially cropped and imperfectly corrected one.

Hadn't considered that. They do make an 18 Mb version of the same camera. Don't know what the sensor size is, but I think the greater resolution would mean a bigger chip. No? I guess what I really need to know is what camera would be a good match to my scope that'd fit in a $400 +/- budget?

[BramHuntingNematodes]

Resolution and sensor size are not well correlated. People have had luck with micro 4/3, aspc and full frame sensors. Anything smaller runs into these problems. For systems without a ton of correction going on in the tube a very good reduction lens might work. Not really the ones that amscope or omax sell. Diagnostic instruments had reduction lenses specifically corrected for many scope models, but you would either need to many hundreds of dollars or get extremely lucky in the secondary market as there a ton of different model combinations.

The cheap reduction lenses would be ok for some documentary photos, but are not great to look at. They only produce decent imagery in the center, and in that case why bother with reduction?

[Harold]

Resolution and sensor size are not well correlated. People have had luck with micro 4/3, aspc and full frame sensors. Anything smaller runs into these problems. For systems without a ton of correction going on in the tube a very good reduction lens might work. Not really the ones that amscope or omax sell. Diagnostic instruments had reduction lenses specifically corrected for many scope models, but you would either need to many hundreds of dollars or get extremely lucky in the secondary market as there a ton of different model combinations.

The cheap reduction lenses would be ok for some documentary photos, but are not great to look at. They only produce decent imagery in the center, and in that case why bother with reduction?

There is plan B which would adapting my old Nikon D50 using something like this https://www.swift-microscopeworld.com/p ... ensor.aspx Or this https://amscope.com/products/ca-nik-slr. Would either of those be a viable set up?

[MichaelG.]

Almost certainly not the optimum solution, but … if you want to use the MU503B, you could ditch the reduction lens and use a C-mount TV lens ‘afocally’

For a 1/2.5” sensor: Something in the region of 12 to 16mm focal length works with many eyepieces.
… You would need to improvise a suitable mounting.

MichaelG.

[Harold]

Almost certainly not the optimum solution, but … if you want to use the MU503B, you could ditch the reduction lens and use a C-mount TV lens ‘afocally’

For a 1/2.5” sensor: Something in the region of 12 to 16mm focal length works with many eyepieces.
… You would need to improvise a suitable mounting.

MichaelG.

That's why I propose using the Nikon D50 with one of the adapters I mentioned.

[MichaelG.]

That's why I propose using the Nikon D50 with one of the adapters I mentioned.

Sorry … I missed the bit where you had rejected the MU503B

MichaelG.

[Harold]

Sorry … I missed the bit where you had rejected the MU503B
MichaelG.

Some quick googling showed that a dedicated camera with an appropriate sized sensor was just not going to fit in my budget. I have the D50 on hand and adapters like the two listed definitely could be had for less money than the MU503B.

[PeteM]

This isn't a recommendation, but I'd point out that a $125 (used) 5mp Nikon Coolpix camera has given me better images than a $300 (new) 5mp AmScope camera.

Olympus BH2 with a 2.5x photo relay eyepiece and a full frame camera (ideally with lock up mirror or mirrorless and live view) works well. Unfortunately, most of the full frame digital options are $1K and up. There are workarounds (flash, settling times, etc.) to avoid vibration with your D50.

[Dubious]

There is merit in finding a way to make equipment already on hand to work, but unless the Nikon D50 has EFSC (electronic first shutter curtain), I probably would not use it, for fear of shutter shake being too much of a problem. Also, does it allow full control by software on the computer (very handy--I do my focusing on the computer screen)? Otherwise, I don't think those adapters you linked are designed to work with a photo eyepiece (I might be wrong). With an APC-S sensor camera, you probably want something like this that is designed to sit on top of the Olympus photo eyepiece (I'm not saying this is the right adapter; he sells all kinds, and could tell you):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254713044426?h ... Swb15cBfyg

[Scarodactyl]

Diagnostic instruments had reduction lenses specifically corrected for many scope models

Expensive as they are, DI adapters are not corrected for particular series. They have specific mechanical adapters for differebt series but they take the exact same lenses. I don't know if anyone (except Infinity Optical?) does third party specifically corrected relay lenses, presumably since most of the market today is for series that don't need it.

[BramHuntingNematodes]

I was reasonably sure that DI had a variety of field lenses that were available for different microscopes in addition to the various clamps offered. I have, for instance, the T45FL1 field lens which is supposedly OK to use on the Balplan, the Microstar IV and some Nikon models. This is supposedly deployed to minimize "color shading."

[Scarodactyl]

I suspect the different field lenses have more to do with getting the rated mag factor across different systems. The fl1 field lens is called for on leitz, olympus bh/bh2, nikon eclipse/-phots and AO scopes, which range from fairly strong eyepiece corrections to none at all.

[BramHuntingNematodes]

In any case it's really probably easier and cheaper to just buy a camera with a bigger sensor than fully explore the vintage reduction lens arcana

[Dubious]

Yes, cheapest would probably be to try the existing Nikon 50D with the adapter tube linked above (assuming it's the right one), with a NFK 2.5x photo eyepiece inserted in the BH2 dovetail. If the 50D doesn't work because of shutter shake or not desired computer connectivity, it would only take another T adapter ($10) to connect the same tube to a Canon EOS 550D (T2i), also APC-S sensor size, which can be had used for <$200 and has EFSC (in Live View) and can be controlled by the excellent EOS Utility software or various third party programs, or similar (any after that in the T_i line should also have those features). Best might be a full-frame camera like the Canon RP ($1000 new--cheaper than DSLR because it's mirrorless), as Olympus says the NFK is optimized for 125mm, but I don't know--I have an APS-C setup on my IMT2 with a NFK 2.5x and it seems to work fine. There are also older full-frame Canon EOS DSLR cameras (and a few from Sony, etc.) that would work, but you want to make sure they have EFSC and software control.

[Harold]

This isn't a recommendation, but I'd point out that a $125 (used) 5mp Nikon Coolpix camera has given me better images than a $300 (new) 5mp AmScope camera.

Olympus BH2 with a 2.5x photo relay eyepiece and a full frame camera (ideally with lock up mirror or mirrorless and live view) works well. Unfortunately, most of the full frame digital options are $1K and up. There are workarounds (flash, settling times, etc.) to avoid vibration with your D50.

Hmmm, might be worth picking up a Coolpix, but it looks like it has a fixed lens. Is there a way to adapt it to a BH2-BHTU?

[PeteM]

The first link below, by Greg McHone, shows how to hook the cameras to Olympus BH2 era scopes.

Older Nikon Coolpix models (e.g. 990,995,4500,5000 . . .) came with a 28mm thread on the end or an adaper (5000 model). There are a number of eyepieces that fit directly into this thread - and then insert into either a binocular or trinocular tube. There are both neutral eyepiece versions (Nikon) and Leitz and Zeiss versions with this 28mm thread. Leitz eyepiece corrections are apparently somewhere between Olympus and Zeiss corections. Someone like MicroBob might refresh our memories. If memory serves, at one point he shared some German-language research.

At one time this was perhaps the main way researchers connected a digital camera at moderate cost. You had an articulating screen for composing and focusing and the ability to have a remote shutter release, a monitor or laptop connected, and to download pictures directly rather than through a card reader. There isn't a mirror that needed locking up and not too much vibration from the shutter. The zoom allows you to fit the image to pretty much what you see. It all worked pretty well for the time.

This approach is now "showing its teeth," I mentioned it mainly to contrast the deficiencies of something like a 5mp USB camera at that $250 to $300 price point. Today, a cell phone camera connected to an eyepiece is another cheaper-better option for many people.

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... coolpix%22

http://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/CP5000_microscope.pdf

USB eyepiece cameras do have their place. I like them for non-critical imaging with binocular heads where it's fast to swap them in for an eyepiece. They can be connected for viewing and image recording to a variety of devices. They'll often come with software for things like measurement and rudimentary photo editing. But they won't have eyepiece corrections for scopes that need them. The options for matching up image size are limited (mainly that $100 or so .5x reduction lens). The sensor size is small and image quality reflects that. And (USB 2.0 especially) they'll have lag in focusing and in taking movies at the higher resolutions due to limited transfer speed.

If anyone wants to try a Coolpix, we have a couple of 5000 models (camera, battery, charger, adapter) and photo relay lenses that I'll be upgrading to mirrorless cameras at some point. I'm open to swaps for something of equal value - which is mostly in the projection eyepiece.

[PeteM]

Another useful article:

https://www.mccrone.com/wp-content/uplo ... camera.pdf

[MichaelG.]

This is, of course, similar in concept to attaching a TV lens to the MU503B … it’s just that the Coolpix has an even smaller sensor.

MichaelG.

[PeteM]

I suppose any afocal method is conceptually similar, so it does come down to the details whether its a DIY adaptation through to shooting with a cell phone camera.

The Coolpix 5000 has a 2/3" sensor size - bigger than the typical 1/3 to 1/2" sensor in most of the USB eyepiece cameras and also larger (larger sensor, not necessarily # of pixels) than most cell phone cameras. An articulating screen, white balance correction, exposure controls, ec. come along for the ride.

The zoom is especially useful for matching up the view through the eyepieces and the camera. And the 28mm thread and close coupling of the lens make it pretty easy to attach a correcting eyepiece.

[Hobbyst46]

Here are some photos that I posted a couple of years ago. Taken with a cheap (~70 USD) 5MP, small sensor (1/2.3" or so) USB eyepiece camera on two different microscopes, that I tested for friends. An Olympus BHS and a Nikon Alphaphot. Both in excellent optical condition and illumination. The Olympus had D-Plan objectives, the Nikon - some basic achromats, not CF. In both cases, the major drawback was the small FOV - barely half of the visible FOV, ALTHOUGH a 0.5X reducing lens was installed. The frame rate is limiting as mentioned above. Also, in the photos of the stage micrometer below, some CA is evident. In addition, the FOV center is in better in focus much than the rims, IMO due to non-plan objectives. Yet, I think that the images are acceptable for documentation. The performance of the camera on my old Zeiss microscope falls at the same level.

There is an opinion that, with respect to "generic" or "stencil" new mass-market microscopes, a beginner would better buy an inexpensive model than invest in a high-priced model. I would gamble that the same is true for eyepiece cameras.

All photos are resized, contrast and background corrected in post-processing.

[MichaelG.]

The Coolpix 5000 has a 2/3" sensor size -

My apologies, Pete … I was thinking of the old 4500 with the twisty body

MichaelG.
.

Edit: __ and even that has a bigger sensor than I thought
https://www.digicamdb.com/specs/nikon_coolpix-4500/

[Harold]

So... After a lot of research I think I've got an idea for something pretty simple that just might work. I'll start with an Canon EOS 5D camera body then mount an EOS to OM adapter and mount that combination to an OM-Mount Photomicro Adapter L attached to the trinocular head. Does that sound workble? Will I need an eyepiece to go in the L adapter? If so, which one?

[deBult]

Yup, that will work.

This setup requires the NFK 2.5x photo eyepiece make sure the Canon body you select has an electronic first shutter: EFSC and software control.

To ease your research check the Alan Wood website http://alanwood.net/olympus/microscopes.html

[Harold]

Thanks for the input. Found a NFK 2.5x this morning and also bought the OM --> Canon EOS adapter. Still need to hunt down a camera body and the L adapter. Alan Woods pages were my primary resource for putting it all together. Very helpful.

[Dubious]

So... After a lot of research I think I've got an idea for something pretty simple that just might work. I'll start with an Canon EOS 5D camera body then mount an EOS to OM adapter and mount that combination to an OM-Mount Photomicro Adapter L attached to the trinocular head. Does that sound workble? Will I need an eyepiece to go in the L adapter? If so, which one?

Don't get the EOS 5D (original). I believe you need the EOS 5D Mark ii, which is the first in the 5D line with both software control and EFSC.

Also, on Ebay there are two guys (one is the link I posted) selling modern versions of the Adapter L full-frame tube setup, in case you have difficulty locating original Olympus tube.

[edit] Here is a combined Adapter L +dovetail mount (replaces two Olympus parts) on Ebay for $99 that should work (you still need the NFK 2.5x):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294363230365?h ... SwVrNf4ACV

[Harold]

Thanks. Yeah, after reading a bit more carefully, I decided to get a Canon EOS 600D body instead. The 5D has a fixed LCD display that isn't convenient.

Does the device you linked totally replace the L adapter?

[Dubious]

Yes, the Ebay listing replaces the complete L Adapter. But the 660D is an APC-S sensor size camera, not full frame. It will work with the full frame tube but there would be significant cropping of the FOV. Some like this, as it can be used to single out the subject of the photo. Probably also easier to achieve parfocality with the eyepieces, as the NFK 2.5x was intended for full-frame camera (35mm film)/distance. However, if you want the full FOV, you need a shorter tube, something like I linked to earlier, designed for the APC-S size sensor.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/254713044426?h ... Swb15cBfyg

(I use this. Note that the tube connects to the camera with a T adapter ring; if the tube you buy comes with the wrong T adapter, it is a $10 item.)