Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

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JohnSmith
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Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#1 Post by JohnSmith » Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:30 am

Recently I bought an Amscope SM3TPZ trinocular microscope with a HD200VP-UM (2MP) camera and am quite pleased with the quality of the image through the eyepieces.

However, the image in the Amscope software through the camera is lacking detail and soft in places. After experimenting with focus, various barlow lenses, exposure, gain, lighting and background colour I have managed to improve it to a degree, but it's still not great. Contrast, gamma and saturation all have to be turned up to max to achieve this, which I doubt should be the case.

Perhaps it's the camera, perhaps (more likely) my inexperience in the field isn't helping things. The test subject is a Varroa mite at various magnifications from 3.5x to 45x so not going to post photos here until I can get confirmation that it's ok, for those that are squeamish!

Any hints or tips on improving the image?


Thx
John

PeteM
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#2 Post by PeteM » Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:50 am

John, finding the view through the eyepieces of a microscope superior to a camera is very common. Our eyes dynamically adjust focus - so non-plan optics look relatively plan. Our eyes see millions of colors and have a huge dynamic range from light to dark. None of this will be true of your camera. In addition, with a camera on a stereo microscope you are seeing just one side of a stereo image -- another big letdown in "wow" factor.

The relatively low cost 2mp camera isn't helping. Something with a larger sensor, with more and larger pixels, and a good dynamic range would be an improvement. That said, cameras on stereo microscopes are great for documentation, but not so great for getting great images. For that a "macro" rig with better and brighter optics and some sort of method of "focus stacking" can give superior images.

Affordable but better microscope camera options have been discussed here before. The USB eyepiece cameras are convenient, especially for things like displaying an image on a monitor, but easily surpassed by options like the old Nikon Coolpix, cheap used mirrorless cameras like the Nikon J1, HDMI C-mount cameras, and at higher cost options like the Rising Cam 1" Sony sensor camera reviewed here by Robert Berdan and a wide variety of digital cameras.

Focus stacking (and the software to combine multiple images into one) is the one way that a camera hooked to a microscope can give a better image (stunning depth of field) than trying to bring some small subject nearer and nearer to our eyes.

JohnSmith
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#3 Post by JohnSmith » Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:40 pm

PeteM, thanks for taking the time to respond.

I've been looking at the review of the 20MP Rising Cam camera on Robert Berdan's site and am blown away by the quality. However, looking at what he can produce with the 3MP Amscope camera would suggest that there's maybe more than just the camera at fault here.

So, after digging deeper I've discovered several issues which I can't find an answer to:

1) White Balance - the images below were taken with a snow white background, however nothing I could do with colour settings or white balance would help to get this correct, this is resulting in very poor colour representation on all images.

2) blurring of the image on both left and right sides of the picture. The 1 euro coin in the images below being a perfect example. No amount of focussing would correct the blur, so am guessing it's poor quality glass in the camera adapter. Would this be a reasonable assumption?

Any other hints/tips would be appreciated. For now, i'd like to at least conclude what the main issues are so that I can get Amscope to resolve things before the 30 day returns period expires. Then, get my hands on the RisingCam 20MP unit.

Image
Image

Thx
John

MichaelG.
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#4 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:28 am

Your ‘snow white’ background appears to be rendered as a pretty decent neutral grey
… This is exactly what I would expect, and hope-for, with averaged metering.

Before condemning the camera, the optics, or yourself … Spend some time reading Ansel Adams

MichaelG.
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Ref. __ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_System
Ref. __ https://paulturounetblog.files.wordpres ... system.pdf
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JohnSmith
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#5 Post by JohnSmith » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:29 pm

Thanks, I'll have a read at those links.

Not sure how that would explain the poor image at the sides of the frame and poor colour representation though, the colours are really washed out.

I'll get reading now then..

John

MichaelG.
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#6 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:20 pm

It does nothing to explain the poor image quality at the edges of the frame :

… I was only responding to your issue (1)

… Issue (2) appears to be down to the quality of your optics.

MichaelG.
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EYE C U
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#7 Post by EYE C U » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:50 pm

COINS AND SUCH CAN BE STACKED FOR IT ALL THE BE IN FOCUS.

jfiresto
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#8 Post by jfiresto » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:04 pm

JohnSmith wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:29 pm
... the colours are really washed out....
Are you using a ring light? That could explain some loss of contrast. If my microscopes were not presently works in progress, I would take some images of a one euro coin illuminated with a ring light vs. dual, gooseneck spots – to show the difference.
-John

JohnSmith
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#9 Post by JohnSmith » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:25 pm

Yes, using a 144 led amscope ring light like this one https://amscope.co.uk/collections/micro ... 31cc&_ss=r

I appreciate that stacking is a popular method to create images when the depth of field is very shallow, however the blurring on the image is not focus related, no amount of re-focusing will sharpen the image when the coin is on the edge of the frame.

I'll try some different illumination to see how things appear.

Thanks everyone for the assistance

John

PeteM
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#10 Post by PeteM » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:38 pm

FWIW, the O in EURO looks about as sharp as I'd expect for a 2mp USB camera and a web image. Are you also using some sort of relay lens (say, a 2x C-mount adapter)?

Polarizers over a light source and below the objective might help eliminated some glare. The USB sensors often don't have a whole lot of dynamic range.

If the problem is lack of planarity, it's likely a problem with scope or (if present) relay lens optics. Somewhat lower cost stereo microscopes (and good ones for that matter) will get soft at the edges if focused sharply at the center of some plane object.

My personal experience with lower- cost UBS cameras is that about 3-5mp is the minimum to get more or less usable photo images. 2mp isn't too bad for viewing on a laptop. Once you start spending the money for a better USB eyepiece camera ($200 - 500++ for a few more mp), there are often optically better options.

MichaelG.
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#11 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 pm

I am not familiar with the Amscope products, but it appears that the camera uses the Left optical path:
Simul-focal Trinocular Port

The simul-focal optics in this microscope allow the trinocular port to be used simultaneously with both eyepieces. This means a camera can stream live images from the microscope while you continue to work with full stereoscopic vision. This is accomplished by sharing the left objective lens with the left ocular and the photo-port. This microscope uses our CX series trinocular port, so it can be easily replaced with optional C-mount ports to match specific cameras.
Assuming that you are using the photo-port: Are you tilting your Euro coin to match the Greenhough tube angle ?

… or :shock: are you using the two eyepiece tubes for photography ?

MichaelG.
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Ref. __ https://amscope.com/products/sm-3tpz?va ... 7688927407
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MichaelG.
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#12 Post by MichaelG. » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:01 am

Any progress, John ?

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JohnSmith
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#13 Post by JohnSmith » Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:09 pm

Hi Michael, apologies for the delay - been a busy few days!

Ok, using the trinocular photo port for the camera. Whilst we weren't allowing for the Greenough path, we tried tilting the coin -7.5 degrees to align it better, this made no difference. (The gradual blurring as you go further to the left of the image can't be corrected with focus)

Image is perfect in the left eyepiece, which is the path of the image for the camera.

The camera adapter / tube is the Amscope RU050 https://amscope.com/products/ru050
(commonly known as the FMA050 that seems to be one of the only adapter tubes around if one does a search online)

The whole setup inc camera is this one https://amscope.com/products/sm-3tpz-144-hd2

Thanks
John

MichaelG.
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#14 Post by MichaelG. » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:37 am

Thanks for the clarification, John
[ which arrived just after we had settled-down for the night ]
we tried tilting the coin -7.5 degrees to align it better, this made no difference. (The gradual blurring as you go further to the left of the image can't be corrected with focus)
From your description, it looks like the Amscope RU050 *must* be the item at fault … but there is a possibility that the beamsplitting system is defective.

Sorry … I have exactly zero practical experience with these items, but I’m happy to ‘think along with you’ whilst you do some further checks.

The coin is a nice ‘typical’ specimen but I think you might start by imaging something like a sheet of graph-paper [stuck onto something flat]. … We can then more easily check for optical distortions.

Photograph it both flat on the specimen-table, and tilted to achieve best possible focus.

Let the forum discuss the results.

MichaelG.

.
Edit: __ No idea why some of my text has appeared in Italics :?
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jfiresto
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#15 Post by jfiresto » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:55 am

MichaelG. wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:37 am
... No idea why some of my text has appeared in Italics :?
It appears to be from putting "I think" inside square brackets, [ ], where the open-bracket plus I excites the forum software.

To test the camera+0.5X adapter, you could try holding it inside an eyepiece tube to see what it makes of the intermediate image.
-John

MichaelG.
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Re: Best software to use with Amscope camera & 'scope?

#16 Post by MichaelG. » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:57 am

jfiresto wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:55 am
MichaelG. wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:37 am
... No idea why some of my text has appeared in Italics :?
It appears to be from putting "I think" inside square brackets, [ ], where the open-bracket plus I excites the forum software.
.

Brilliant deduction … Thank You !

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

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