camera and/or camera adapter question

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DavidW10
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:45 pm

camera and/or camera adapter question

#1 Post by DavidW10 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:07 pm

I have a Unitron Z850 stereo microscope, trinocular. When I got the scope years ago I had a C-Mount included. I believe the C-Mount has a 0.5× reduction lens. See attached. I am now wanting to attach a camera to the microscope via the trinocular port. I was thinking of getting a used DSLR camera something like a Canon 50D or 80D.

Micro-Tech-Labs: told me that I could use their DSLR22FTC_Pro adapter (https://www.lmscope.com/en/preise_out.p ... ame720foto ) but that the image quality would be lower (I assume they mean not optimal). Their adapter is US $1,390. I believe it includes the T mount for a Canon.

They also said that if I can remove the 0.5× optics and extend the port with a simple tube, then it should work without restrictions (I assume they mean the image quality would be ideal). If I bought their adapter they would be willing to add a free tube sleeve (https://www.lmscope.com/en/preise_out.p ... ame720foto).

I checked out my C-mount and there is a small retaining ring that if I could unscrew I should be able to remove the optics. The retaining ring appears to have been glued in but hopefully I could unscrew it if I got the correct spanner wrench.

I also found out that Unitron offers a DSLR adapter for my microscope (https://microscopes.unitronusa.com/unit ... meras.html). It is pricy ($1011) but cheaper than the Micro-Tech-Labs adapter. Also the Micro-Tech-Labs adapter appears to come with a T-mount for a Canon.

I hope to use the same camera for images in a compound microscope that I will buy. I currently have an old but nice black Nikon compound microscope but it does not have a trinocular and I would like to be able to work with phase contrast as well, which my current Nikon compound microscope does not have. A prerequisite for this new compound microscope will be the easy ability to attach my camera.

I wonder if anyone can help me out here. $1390 for an adapter seems like a lot but if it will work wonders I might be willing to do this. I just wonder if the whole set up that Micro-Tech-Labs are proposing will actually work (i.e. will my setup be parfocal and get good images)? Let me know what you think. If I go with the Unitron Adapter would it also make sense to remove the optics if I use a Canon 80D?

Or would it simply be better to get a microscope camera? I spoke with folks at microscopecentral.com and they recommended a VIEW4K High Definition 4K HDMI, WiFi, USB Microscope Camera (https://microscopecentral.com/products/ ... ope-camera), which is priced at $1400. Seems pricey for a camera that has relatively small sensor and is not a name brand. But of course I would not need to buy any type of adapter. Unitron also offers microscope cameras (Excellus brand).

Thanks for any help or thoughts anyone can provide.
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Scarodactyl
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#2 Post by Scarodactyl » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:38 pm

You can directply place an aps-c camera over the bare port, but you will get some flare. Still it's cheap and pretty good.
https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... 24&t=10661
You could also get a generic 2x dslr adapter (sold by many sources, labeled 'ndpl') and adapt it on. It should give adequate results and might have less flare since the narrower snoot would act like a baffle. Or you could make your own baffle with flocking paper and use a teleconverter to upsize the image a bit.
Do not spend 1k on an adapter. For that money you could get a real Olympus sz4045 which will direct project onto aps-c with excellent quality.

DavidW10
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:45 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#3 Post by DavidW10 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:16 pm

Thanks for your ideas.

When you say
You can directply place an aps-c camera over the bare port, but you will get some flare. Still it's cheap and pretty good.
https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... 24&t=10661
What equipment would I need to do this? Can these be purchased somewhere? And I was hoping to get images without flare.

If I got a generic 2x dslr adapter would that be able to attach onto the c-mount that is on my microscope? And then it would be going through the 0.5× optics of the c-mount and then the 2× optics of the adapter. Wouldn't that lead to having more optics in between my object and the sensor? And 0.5× and then 2.0× reduction optics seem like it would cause problems.

While my Unitron is not an Olympus per se it has functioned really well for me for years. It has 0.7-5.0× zoom and the optics seem good. If I had a real Olympus especially the older sz4045TR would it not also need adapters to connect to a camera.

dtrinh
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:18 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#4 Post by dtrinh » Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:08 pm

Hello,
To use the 2x adapter, the set up is like this:
Image

Don't spend hundreds of dollars on the adapter, unless you earn a lot of money from taking photos. I would buy a mirrorless camera with electronic shutter instead.
And no, this won't require your 0.5x lens

DavidW10
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:45 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#5 Post by DavidW10 » Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:17 pm

Thanks for the illustrated! instructions. This is really helpful. And please excuse my lack of understanding. I don't know why all of this seems so complicated.
dtrinh wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:08 pm
And no, this won't require your 0.5x lens
So I guess from this that I will need to attempt to remove the 0.5x optics within my C-mount. Yes?

And why do you recommend a mirrorless camera. I plan on using the camera only on my microscopes so a larger size is OK.

dtrinh
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:18 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#6 Post by dtrinh » Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:40 pm

DavidW10 wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:17 pm
Thanks for the illustrated! instructions. This is really helpful. And please excuse my lack of understanding. I don't know why all of this seems so complicated.
dtrinh wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:08 pm
And no, this won't require your 0.5x lens
So I guess from this that I will need to attempt to remove the 0.5x optics within my C-mount. Yes?

And why do you recommend a mirrorless camera. I plan on using the camera only on my microscopes so a larger size is OK.
I guess you need to remove your already existing camera adapter first, then put this 2x adapter in instead. If you can buy from Amazon, I think you can order a 2x adapter and camera-specific T2 adapter to try. If it doesn't work, you can always return them.
Here is one such 2x adapter from Bresser, other brands should be similar:
https://www.bresser.de/en/Microscopes-M ... -2-mm.html

dtrinh
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:18 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#7 Post by dtrinh » Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:42 pm

About the camera, it would be very nice to have a camera with silent shutter mode, so that the vibration caused by the camera is minimized.

Dubious
Posts: 426
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Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#8 Post by Dubious » Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:25 pm

Amscope sells camera-specific 2x DSLR adapters on Ebay, Amazon and its website. E.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/190814167210 (Nikon for $130).

Amscope also has a variety of USB cameras, if you prefer that over a DSLR. You would probably want >5MB and USB 3.0.

Scarodactyl
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#9 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:00 pm

DavidW10 wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:16 pm
Thanks for your ideas.

When you say
You can directply place an aps-c camera over the bare port, but you will get some flare. Still it's cheap and pretty good.
https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... 24&t=10661
What equipment would I need to do this? Can these be purchased somewhere? And I was hoping to get images without flare.
As mentioned in the thread I 3d printed an m26x0.5 to m42x1 adapter and used common m42 spacers and adapters from there. You might be able to make an off the shelf m26x0.75 to m42 adapter fit well enough.
DavidW10 wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:16 pm
If I got a generic 2x dslr adapter would that be able to attach onto the c-mount that is on my microscope?
No, you'd need to rig something up to adapt it. It would take some work but it wouldn't take 1000 dollars worth of work.
DavidW10 wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:16 pm
Wouldn't that lead to having more optics in between my object and the sensor? And 0.5× and then 2.0× reduction optics seem like it would cause problems.
You wouldn't use the 0.5x at the same time. It would have some extra glass, but them's the breaks--there isn't a no-compromises solution.
DavidW10 wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:16 pm
While my Unitron is not an Olympus per se it has functioned really well for me for years. It has 0.7-5.0× zoom and the optics seem good. If I had a real Olympus especially the older sz4045TR would it not also need adapters to connect to a camera.
It's certainly not bad, but there are inherent design limits that the Olympus does not have. Yes, it does require an adapter but just a mechanical adapter, no optics needed. For mine I 3d printed an adapter. it's probably simplest to stick with what you're happy with, but my point is that spending 1k on an adapter for an entry-tier chinese stereo microscope does not make sense--this model retails for like 350 dollars or less from some sellers.

DavidW10
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:45 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#10 Post by DavidW10 » Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:11 pm

So I went ahead and got a Canon SLR/DSLR Camera Adapter for Microscopes (see https://amscope.com/products/ca-can-slr). Unfortunately when I take off the C-mount the inner diameter of the tube that comes out of my microscope (see image) has an inner diameter of 22.25 mm and the camera adapter has an outer diameter (which needs to fit inside of the tube) of allegedly 23.3 although I measured 23.5. So it won't fit. The wall of the adapter is about 0.7 mm thick so it will not work to try and reduce the diameter of the adapter. Does anyone have any ideas?
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Scarodactyl
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#11 Post by Scarodactyl » Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:53 pm

Have you tried handholding the adapter over the trinocular port? It might want to sit somewhere above the threads.

DavidW10
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:45 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#12 Post by DavidW10 » Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:11 am

Scarodactyl wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:53 pm
Have you tried handholding the adapter over the trinocular port? It might want to sit somewhere above the threads.
I just tried that and I can get it to sit there. I attached the camera and I think there is something wrong with the trinocular port. I can't get any clear image through it. Even if I take away the camera and move objects (under the body of the microscope) up and down. Even if I reattach the C-Mount and look through it. I can see something is there but it never even comes close to being clear enough to discern what it is.

So I guess if I really want to use a trinocular port I will need another scope!

Thanks everyone for all the help.

DavidW10
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:45 pm

Re: camera and/or camera adapter question

#13 Post by DavidW10 » Sat Dec 17, 2022 1:56 pm

Please see questions at the bottom of this post.
So all is not lost! I took a 10x handlens and peered through the 0.5x reduction lens of the c-mount and I was able to get items on the stage in focus!

I then tried with my Canon EOS 70D. Again looking through the 0.5x reduction lens of the c-mount. This time though I had the 2x camera adapter on the Canon. So I was looking though the c-mount and the camera adapter. I was able to set the camera on top of the c-mount.
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Then I took the C-mount off and viewed with the Canon EOS 70D with 2x camera adapter right through the tube coming out of the microscope. I had to hold the camera quite high above the tube coming out of the microscope and as I was hand holding the camera, the image is quite blurry but gives one a sense of things.
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I also tried one more thing. I moved my microscope high up away from the stage (it is a boom arm microscope). I placed the microscope as high as I could get it, maybe a foot extra above where it normally sits. Then I took an image like last time (i.e., I took the C-mount off and viewed with the Canon EOS 70D with 2x camera adapter right through the tube coming out of the microscope). The camera only needed to be a tiny bit above the tube coming out of the microscope but of course if I looked through the eye pieces I would not be able to get the item on the stage in focus. Again I needed to hand hold the camera so the image is a little blurry. Having the microscope so high up gave me a much larger field of view but again this would not be workable as I want to achieve parfocal with the eye pieces and camera.
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So a couple of questions and where I plan to go from here. I will try and get a friend of mine to create a tube. The tube will be threaded on the inner surface towards the base and above will have an inner diameter of 3.25 mm. Therefore I will be able to screw the new tube onto the tube that comes out of my microscope and slip the adapter into the new tube above. I will see if we can make the new tube adjustable in terms of height so I can adjust the height to make the camera image be in focus.

But the field of view will be so small. So should I see if there is 1x or 1.5x adapter out there? How much of difference will this make? How much bigger will my field of view be if I had a camera with a full sized sensor? Is there a reason why my images are tinted purple? What material would be best for the new tube, plastic, metal, doesn't matter? What color would be best for the new tube, black, white, doesn't matter? Any other thoughts on what I am trying to do.

Thanks!

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