Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

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Lutra87
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Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#1 Post by Lutra87 » Sat May 02, 2020 1:14 am

:Anybody else noticed this announcement https://www.engadget.com/raspberry-pi-1 ... 45607.html

I've pre-ordered and will be attempting to develop it into an imaging platform.

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#2 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Sat May 02, 2020 1:46 am

Yes. I would be interested in how it performs.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

Scarodactyl
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#3 Post by Scarodactyl » Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 am

On paper it looks very promising, and I'm really ezcited to see how easy it is to use. It could well be a basis for a very nice and easy imaging system.

MicroBob
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#4 Post by MicroBob » Sat May 02, 2020 6:28 am

This is an interesting development!
I use a c-mount camera with an old Pentax 110 SLR-Lens to connect directly to an eyepiece which works fine.
The SOny 1/2,3'' chip in this camera could be similar to the one in the Pentax Q. This camera wasn't quite as good as an APS-C camera but good enough for many applications. One drawback was the the sensor's dynamic is restricted which can be a problem with some microscope images.
A Raspberry Pi with a good camera could allow to auto stitch or stack and give incredible results with mediocre microscope hardware.

Bob

MichaelG.
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#5 Post by MichaelG. » Sat May 02, 2020 8:23 am

More info. here:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/new-pr ... now-at-50/
and
https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products ... _Flyer.pdf

... It looks very promising.

MichaelG.

.
Sorry but I couldn’t face all those ‘privacy settings’ on the Engadget link.
Too many 'projects'

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#6 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Sat May 02, 2020 1:31 pm

MicroBob wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:28 am
A Raspberry Pi with a good camera could allow to auto stitch or stack and give incredible results with mediocre microscope hardware.
Well, we're trying over here.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

deBult
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#7 Post by deBult » Sat May 02, 2020 7:10 pm

BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:31 pm
MicroBob wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:28 am
A Raspberry Pi with a good camera could allow to auto stitch or stack and give incredible results with mediocre microscope hardware.
Well, we're trying over here.
Interesting: please keep us updated on any progress whether successful or disappointing.

MicroBob
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#8 Post by MicroBob » Sat May 02, 2020 8:18 pm

I my view there is a lot of potential in combining simple optics with intelligent computer control. A Planapo 16x costs several thouthands of €. At the same time automatic stitching and stacking with a simple 100:1 achromat for 60€ could offer even more image resolution over an even wider field. So there could be a lot to gain!

Bob

Lutra87
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#9 Post by Lutra87 » Sat May 09, 2020 10:38 pm

Hey Guys,

Given the size of this camera (it's pretty damn small), might it be the best option to position it at the intermediate image plane? Or should I have some sort of optics in the Trinocular photo tube and position the sensor above the photo tube. The sensor 1/2" , so I assume I would need some sort of focal reducer lens?

MichaelG.
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#10 Post by MichaelG. » Sun May 10, 2020 4:59 am

Lutra87 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:38 pm
The sensor 1/2"
Please forgive the pedantry, but, according to Sony it is a 1/2.3 sensor
... which is significantly smaller than 1/2 [but still a very useable size]

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products ... _Flyer.pdf
.
Diagonal 7.857 mm (Type 1/2.3) 12.3 Mega-Pixel CMOS Image Sensor with Square Pixel for Color Cameras
It may be useable at the primary image from the objective [the intermediate image plane] but it would crop the field ... results will inevitably depend on the properties of the chosen objective. [*]

MichaelG.

[*] planar, and fully colour-corrected, over the central 8mm diameter of the image circle would be ideal
Too many 'projects'

Scarodactyl
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#11 Post by Scarodactyl » Sun May 10, 2020 6:16 am

Lutra87 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:38 pm
Given the size of this camera (it's pretty damn small), might it be the best option to position it at the intermediate image plane?
Depending on the system the intermediate image can be quite large, oftrn enough to cover aps-c. Much better to use reducing optics I would think.
Some systems dont have an easy way to do that (mostly olympus bh2 series) but most others will have high quality native and third party options available.

Lutra87
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#12 Post by Lutra87 » Sun May 10, 2020 4:41 pm

Please forgive the pedantry, but, according to Sony it is a 1/2.3 sensor
... which is significantly smaller than 1/2 [but still a very useable size]
Apologies. You are correct. My brain is suffering from information overload! My problem is I need to use a corrective eyepiece to pair with my Leitz pl fluorotar objectives, so I probably cannot place the sensor at the intermediate image. Does it make sense to put a regular correcting eyepiece in my trinocular tube, followed in short distance by a reducer lens, followed by the image sensor?? How do I figure out the correct spacing between all these components. Am I likely to get a decent result just through experimentation, or should I try to calculate the parameters. I am trying to understand the required optics but my head is spinning. If I'm understanding this correctly, the image would be located somewhere shortly after the focal length of the eyepiece but would be flipped Is this where I place the sensor?

Scarodactyl
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#13 Post by Scarodactyl » Sun May 10, 2020 5:22 pm

Lutra87 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 4:41 pm
Does it make sense to put a regular correcting eyepiece in my trinocular tube, followed in short distance by a reducer lens, followed by the image sensor??
Yes. This is how their official solutions work for dslrs. I've never tried it with a sensor this small but it should probably work with a wide angle lens. A rough napkin calculation suggests maybe a 10mm lens? I haven't done anything with c mount lenses so I am not sure how easy one would be to get.
Lutra87 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 4:41 pm
How do I figure out the correct spacing between all these components.
Seems daunting but it's not that bad. The eyepiece just needs to be in focus with your other eyepieces. Then the 10mm lens focused to infinity just needs to be over it. The dostance theoretically matters, but with a 40mm lems on aps-c I tried moving the camera up and down and seeing what it did to the image, and within a range it really did nothing.

MicroBob
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#14 Post by MicroBob » Sun May 10, 2020 6:16 pm

You are right, for first class imaging you have to use a correction eyepiece. A Pentax Q with identical chip size and an 8,5mm objective works fine.

MichaelG.
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#15 Post by MichaelG. » Sun May 10, 2020 9:55 pm

MicroBob wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 6:16 pm
You are right, for first class imaging you have to use a correction eyepiece. A Pentax Q with identical chip size and an 8,5mm objective works fine.
Sorry ... I’m late back to the discussion, and it looks like everything is sorted now :

corrective eyepiece and afocal imaging using a suitable focal length lens should work nicely.

I look forward to seeing the results !

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

krame
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#16 Post by krame » Fri May 29, 2020 12:39 am

Any further progress on this? I'm awaiting my very first stereomicroscope and I'm looking around at live view options.

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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#17 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:29 am

OK so I got tired of waiting for the reviews and just went and got one for the Dynazoom. I put the old camera back on the Dynoptic where it rightfully belongs, doing afocal work with the apochromats. For the RPiHQC, I wanted to try direct imaging. I bought an omax C-mount 0.5 reducer lens as the sensor is 1/2.3 and I hear 0.5 reduction lenses are about the right size for that.

I should as a foreword say that by now I am well satisfied that this is a pretty good setup. I can post some pictures later, but tonight I'm p. tired with all the rigmarole a spent trying to get it working.

First off, you have to update your OS and upgrade all your packages. I rebuilt my Raspberian kernel and had everything up-to-date as of maybe 6 months ago. I didn't have to rebuild the kernel today, but VLC player was acting very bad with the device and it wouldn't stream on the network either until after I updated everything. No need to get frustrated or worry about it though. Now I can play it as capture device dev/0 in VLC no problem. The camera has a lot of settings you can fiddle with in real time. Color balance and exposure and ISO and all that good stuff. Also things like framerate and bitrate can be adjusted on the fly, so all that's great.

The lens though! God did I have trouble with it. First, there was so much grime and dirt on the lens and on the viewing window over my camera port. So much cleaning and yet still all I could see it seemed was dirt. It took a lot of very careful blowing and wiping to get it looking usable although still very distracting with all the dirt. Next was the terrific pincushion effect and awful chromatic aberration. I mean I know that Chinese optics sometimes get a bad rap but this was incredible. Just unacceptable. Also, the magnification factor was clearly incorrect-- it looked more like a .3 or .25 reduction. I wasted maybe an hour adjusting the light and this and that trying to get it to look better woopsie what's this the lens cap also has a little ring that unscrews from it oh this is the CS to C-mount adapter let's see ah OK I feel dumb.
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MichaelG.
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#18 Post by MichaelG. » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:36 am

.

Thanks, Brad !!

You have done all that groundwork, and we get the benefit.

Yes, on that scale a 5mm spacer would make a big difference
... very easy to say that with hindsight, not so easy to notice when you’re weary

Keep up the good work ... I’m keen to see some images

MichaelG.

.
Edit: Here’s my small contribution to the common good:
https://www.ikegami.com/cb/products/pdf ... smount.pdf
Too many 'projects'

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#19 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:11 pm

Yes well, it's a decent, even a good camera. These are all single shots with no editing, just shift+s during the VLC media stream straight to imgur's compression algorithm. Brightfield with the Dynazoom outfitted with the Balplan 40x plan achromat.

Image

Image

In the hands of a better photographer it might be even better. Also, the photo I took of what I believe are the comb scales of aedes albopictus larva were taken with this camera.

Image

I'll look around for a sample with a little more color.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

MichaelG.
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#20 Post by MichaelG. » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:14 pm

Thanks for sharing the images, Brad
Edit: With apologies :oops: Bram

Looks like it should be useful

MichaelG.
Last edited by MichaelG. on Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#21 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:19 pm

No problem Nick ;)

If you already have your appropriate reduction lens and only $50 to spend on a camera I think this is your best bet.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

MichaelG.
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#22 Post by MichaelG. » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:15 pm

BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:19 pm
No problem Nick ;)
Embarrassing faux pas duly edited :oops:

MichaelG.
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krame
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#23 Post by krame » Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:29 am

BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:29 am
I am well satisfied that this is a pretty good setup
I know this is an old thread, but I'm considering this setup. Are you still happy with the HQ camera? Are you still using it?

I bought one of these ....
US $92.42 21%OFF | Full HD 1080P 2K 3800W 38MP HDMI USB Industrial Electronic Digital Video Microscope Camera + 0.5X 23.2mm C Mount Adapter Lens
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms7d2mJ

And it works well enough on my stereo microscope but on my newly acquired compound microscope, it doesn't appear to be able to bring objects into focus, like it has an even shallower DoF than the objective. Maybe this is normal? It also has a red dot in the middle which I think is from the condenser.

dtsh
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#24 Post by dtsh » Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:10 am

krame wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:29 am
BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:29 am
I am well satisfied that this is a pretty good setup
I know this is an old thread, but I'm considering this setup. Are you still happy with the HQ camera? Are you still using it?

I bought one of these ....
US $92.42 21%OFF | Full HD 1080P 2K 3800W 38MP HDMI USB Industrial Electronic Digital Video Microscope Camera + 0.5X 23.2mm C Mount Adapter Lens
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms7d2mJ

And it works well enough on my stereo microscope but on my newly acquired compound microscope, it doesn't appear to be able to bring objects into focus, like it has an even shallower DoF than the objective. Maybe this is normal? It also has a red dot in the middle which I think is from the condenser.
I have one I futz with. It's functional and the image quality is pretty good but the sensor size is small. I use mine with a reducing barlow which makes it more usable. If you have an rpi already and use it, it might be worth playing with, but if you don't I don't it might not be worth the investment. In general I think a comparable USB camera would be preferable as you're not tied to the SPI interface. I'm not knocking it, I love the rpi and the HQ camera module is slick, just it has it's weak points too.

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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#25 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:25 am

Yeah I have little Pi dedicated to the scopes so it made sense. If you want to run the stream to a different computer it might make sense to try something else. The reduction lens is pretty essential with the 1/2.3 sensor.

Trouble with cheap USB cameras is they mostly all got little sensors. The Hayear microscope cameras, for instance, only get as big as 1/2.5 I think. Try looking into getting like a used Basler camera with a big sensor and you'll end up paying more than if you just get a mirrorless apsc consumer camera new.

You can get some of the old micro 4/3 camera frames dirrrrt cheap but I don't know how.easy they are to interface with a computer.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#26 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:29 am

krame wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:29 am
BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:29 am
I am well satisfied that this is a pretty good setup
I know this is an old thread, but I'm considering this setup. Are you still happy with the HQ camera? Are you still using it?

I bought one of these ....
US $92.42 21%OFF | Full HD 1080P 2K 3800W 38MP HDMI USB Industrial Electronic Digital Video Microscope Camera + 0.5X 23.2mm C Mount Adapter Lens
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms7d2mJ

And it works well enough on my stereo microscope but on my newly acquired compound microscope, it doesn't appear to be able to bring objects into focus, like it has an even shallower DoF than the objective. Maybe this is normal? It also has a red dot in the middle which I think is from the condenser.
You might try to get a different reduction lens as I bet the one that comes with that camera is one of the corners cut to get it at that price. Might help with the red dot also if the one that came with it ain't got no coatings and is catching glare. The sensor and associated hardware shouldn't have much to do with the depth of field
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

krame
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#27 Post by krame » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:01 pm

BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:29 am
You might try to get a different reduction lens
Anything you could recommend?

Or

Anything terribly wrong with something like this?

https://www.amscope.com/0-5x-c-mount-re ... meras.html

Edit: I have a Nikon D7000 camera laying around. It has a crop sensor as opposed to a full frame, would a 1x lens be the appropriate choice for that route? It'd be tough because I'd need to make some kind of support as I don't have a trino

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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#28 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:52 pm

I have the omax version of that reduction lens and it works pretty good- certainly no hot spots. There's maybe some nicer ones out there but likely at a big step up in price and we're not trying to break the bank I know.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

krame
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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#29 Post by krame » Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:54 pm

Roger that.
Thanks everyone!

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Re: Raspberry Pi High Quality Camera

#30 Post by hans » Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:25 pm

I don't have one but was considering. I think the interesting thing about these is that since they are connected directly with MIPI CSI you can get raw output (up to 12 bpp) and higher data rates than possible with USB2.

From https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /camera.md:
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