Quick adaptor advice- Olympus EHT trinocular + Canon 1000D parfocality adaptors?

[Kinetochore]

Have done a fair bit of reading on sensor size and trinocular camera adaptors- but if anyone here has direct experience on the best camera adaptor/ accessories to buy I'd love to hear it. As a noob I admit to confusion and occasional misplacing of the decimal point at 0300

Have an Olympus EHT trinocular head- OD of camera mount eyepiece is 24mm

Have a Canon 1000D camera, no lens just the body, nice and standard from my readings

I'd like to mount the Canon on the trinocular and achieve parfocality. I'll be looking at images 1500x so need as much clarity as I can get- I'd love to use software zoom to get extra magnification if possible

What would be the cheapest, most effective and cost efficient mounting adaptors to do this?

I'm the absolute queen of buying too many of the wrong accessories before stumbling on the right one, and I live a fair whack away from a major city. If I can zap straight to the best purchase it'll save me a ton of time and money

Many thanks to you all for your patience with my shallow learning curve

[deBult]

Suggested reading

https://www.alanwood.net/olympus/microscopes.html

[Kinetochore]

Suggested reading

https://www.alanwood.net/olympus/microscopes.html

Thank you. Perhaps I should have been a little clearer.

I've read so many pages over the last few months. Including many of the ones in the front page above. I'm still confused and don't want to purchase the wrong kit, spend a week trying to fit it into current workflow and then find out I've bought the wrong kit.

Having worked in wetlabs extensively over +25 years, set up a few, run a few, trained many staff and students and upskilled considerably over several very distinct technical fields in that time I am well aware that buying the wrong kit from a half-arsed instructables page or an apparently solid vendor is absolutely routine in the early phases of learning. But it's also a massive waste of time, money and storage space. Kit can take a month to land in Australia- or more. Lead time delays projects- especially when the wrong kit is purchased. All the things I'm asking very precisely here so I can avoid them

I'll link a few of the pages I've checked:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2P ... 2mlJj8/pub

https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9. ... up_id=7717

http://zarfenterprises.com/canon-dslr-o ... pters.html

https://www.microbehunter.com/the-compl ... icroscope/

And of course, many of the pages on :

https://www.alanwood.net/olympus/microscopes.html

At this point I'm only interested in stills photography. Bonus points if I can get FOV to match between camera and scope as well as parfocality, but parfocal is the priority

My understanding from the microbehunter link above is that I need an adapter and T2 adapter ring for the Canon as well as the DSLR adaptor. Is this correct? The sponsored link here is for an Amscope, and I'm already not a fan of Amscope https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005O ... f=as_li_tl Does the product in the link contain everything I need to get identical visuals between eyepiece and camera view?

If anyone has direct experience connecting the two specific models- Olympus EHT + Canon 1000D, brand recommendations, caveats etc that'd be fabulous, thanks

[Tom Jones]

Actually, there is no way to get an identical field of view between the camera and the eyepieces. The eyepiece view is round, and the outer edges, probably about a third, of the image are generally not quite as nice as the center two thirds. That's why cameras usually crop the image in from the edge. You can use an afocal method and shoot what the eyepiece sees, but then you get a round image on a square or rectangular frame that wastes a significant portion of that frame. You will, however, get everything the eyepiece sees in the image.

You also need to match your sensor size (APS-C I believe) on your camera with the projection frame size. That means any projection lens will not only have to correct for aberration present in the microscope objectives, and usually corrected in the eyepieces, but project the appropriate size (round) image onto your 22.2 x 14.8 mm sensor to completely cover it with the best part of the image. In reality, that's probably not going to happen. You'll most likely project a larger image onto the sensor resulting a crop of some size. There goes your field of view again. As a consolation prize you get somewhat increased magnification on the image vs. what you see in the eyepieces.

Also fun is the fact that digital cameras have a nasty tendency to use different frame dimensions for different resolutions, and often even different frame rates in video. So, no one size fits all. For example, a full frame (35mm) camera set to shoot using the Super 35 video format, will always crop the image to fit the smaller sensor size for at least a couple of reasons. First, the width and height of the different frame sizes are not the same ratio, and second, only rarely do camera manufacturers bin multiple pixels to shrink the resolution. They just use a subset of the sensor as it's much easier and cheaper to implement.

Parfocality simply means you need to be able to adjust the distance from the projection optics to your camera sensor plane so it's in focus when your eyepiece view is in focus. With live view, it's much less important now. Just use live view to crop and focus your image. Close counts here. I love parfocality, and work to achieve it in my work, but in truth, and in practice, it's a bit over rated in this digital age. Years ago, using a transmission electron microscope, we "step focused" through an image in the hope that we got one frame out of five in focus. But that was film, and you had to take the time to develop the damn stuff before you knew whether you had a properly focused image. I did that with film in light microscopy too. MUCH nicer now!

And if your shooting in 4k resolution or so, and projecting onto a 4k monitor, you can see almost all of the detail you can see through the eyepieces. Almost...

A simple solution, at least for the time being, is to get a mount for your cell phone and use that to shoot afocally through the trinocular head. Most recent cell phone cameras are at least a match for your older Canon, if not superior. It's possible to get a live view of the cell phone image using either the iPhone or an Android phone. You can use the cell phone to crop and rotate the image as you see fit without the gymnastics necessary with regular cameras. You can easily shoot publication and projection quality images with your cell phone.

Here's a link to an article I wrote on cell phone still and video micrography for Micscape several years ago. While it's a little dated, the general principles are the same, and your cell phone camera is even more capable than mine was then.

[Kinetochore]

Thank you heaps! You've covered and confirmed a few things for me

I did try a couple of cellphone eyepiece mounts- they were less than optimal, as my phone doesn't have manual focus and a new phone to spec is potentially double the cost of even an expensive adaptor. Autofocus was a nightmare even with lock on- phone software turns it off if the changes go beyond a certain threshold and there is no option to turn that off. Was weighty on the eyepiece too, even when taping everything down the slightest movement on the microscope at 1500x would cause weight shifts that would blow the autofocus. Cellphone mounts now sitting in storage.

I did consider the NeXYZ cellphone adaptor for a minute, until I was gifted a well stored Canon 1000D and found a cheap trinocular head in good nick. The NeXYZ is about AUD$70- but... it likely wasn't going to fix autofocus issues on the phone

Lots of things I didn't know about FOV, frame dimension variations, exact sensor size ( which was in Canon manual but thank you for confirming I was looking at the right technical measurement- wasn't 100% til now )

I just bought a cheap adaptor for the trinocular - ebay Metal Bayonet Mount Lens Adapter 23.2MM for Canon EOS DSLR Cameras to Microscope- https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/304239338079. Hopefully I won't need any other parts. If it even half works but leaks a little light it will inspire me to get a better built one ( if bodgying it with electrical tape doesn't help )

And I'll go with Live View on the Canon- good to have confirmed as a workaround.

And the tip for the 4K monitor- lab was gifted one last month, so I will definitely set it up. Go HDMI straight to the monitor from the camera? Is there any image loss if it goes camera->laptop software->monitor? If I can shoot from the software it'll save me needing a remote shutter

Here's a link to an article I wrote on cell phone still and video micrography for Micscape several years ago. While it's a little dated, the general principles are the same, and your cell phone camera is even more capable than mine was then.

Was this you?https://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ar ... omicro.pdf Lovely article. The link to the fluorescent imaging for cell phones is a gem too, I'll keep an eye on that

Thanks also for your mention of the old analogue tek. Tales of serious skills and dedication are important to me, they're inspiring and a reminder of the accomplishment and commitment needed to master any field. Also a reminder of how lucky we have it now

[deBult]

Sorry, the adapter you bought will only function on a micro with infinity objectives.

As stated on the Alan Wood pages + above you require an Olympus FK correction eyepiece (finite objectives require a MATCHING projection eyepiece for color correction). (assuming you are using the original supplied Olympus 37 mm short barrel optics: they are “finite”).

Please clarify what is not clear to you in the Alan Wood pages: I think even you specific camera (or near equivalent) is in there: look at the pages for a BH/CH scope (successor range to yours) not the BH2 pages.

[Tom Jones]

Was this you?https://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ar ... omicro.pdf

Yes, that's the article I wrote.

Looking a bit farther, it seems your 1000D doesn't have HDMI output, only USB, so you'll need a computer connection. And that resolution is 768x512 pixels, so the 4K I mentioned is only useful when you can get 4K out of HDMI. It does have a zoom function, so it will be useful for framing and focus. As for software, Canon Utilities is free. I use it with my Canon R5. I used DSLR Remote Pro (https://www.breezesys.com/solutions/bre ... or-windows) with my 5D MkII to good effect, but it costs. You can trigger shooting with either. I'm sure there are others as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_1000D

https://www.lmscope.com/en/canon_eos_1000D_en.html

[Kinetochore]

Sorry, the adapter you bought will only function on a micro with infinity objectives.

Aha. Ahahahaha I am a goose. Another object for the archives but at least I know this in advance- thank you. I did not know this previously

As stated on the Alan Wood pages + above you require an Olympus FK correction eyepiece (finite objectives require a MATCHING projection eyepiece for color correction). (assuming you are using the original supplied Olympus 37 mm short barrel optics: they are “finite”).

Erk, I have the P7x eyepiece for the phototube that came with it. Does it specifically have to be the FK correction, or will the P7X be OK?

Edit: after checking the Olympus L adaptor manual at https://www.manualslib.com/manual/15158 ... ter-L.html it does say the FK eyepiece is preferred because it's specifically adapted to microphotography

Am deffo not using infinity optics- thank you for this important distinction

For the EHT, can I switch out an NF or NFK trinocular eyepiece for the P7X and do away with needing the PM-ADP adaptor? If so, which one? That could be more convenient and a bit cheaper than buying the PM-ADP as well as the adaptor L

trinocular eyepiece olympus eht by Kinet Ochore, on Flickr

look at the pages for a BH/CH scope (successor range to yours) not the BH2 pages.

Thank you greatly again, I was partly confused because the EH model wasn't in there. The BC/CH page is tremendously helpful

According to Alan Wood at https://www.alanwood.net/olympus/photom ... ter-l.html there may be further considerations, like buying in a 2mm adaptor to compensate for switching from an Olympus camera body to the digital Canon- am I right? Almost everything else about the L adaptor on that page confuses me and the Adaptor L and eyepiece adaptor are potentially expensive mistakes if I buy the wrong parts ( again )

So, my current understanding is the following-if the P7X eyepiece is the only suitable option, I'll need:

• Eyepiece Adaptor PM-ADP
  My P7X eyepiece above that
  Adaptor L- cheapest I can find is this https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/166360864880
  Some kind of 2mm spacer
  T2 adaptor
  Then the camera body

Am I correct? Hoping there is a cheaper option than the ebay L adaptor in the link above- AUD$500+ is a lot of dosh to throw in and risk being wrong. If it's all I have I'll confirm lab results successful by eyeball only before I splash enough cash to impress the client, and maybe mess about with the cell phone camera adaptor again

Thank you all so much for your time. I'm revelling in the noob aspect of taking on a new incredibly technical field this late in my career- as well as the irony of it being an incredibly technical field which the results of every online search ( prior to arriving here ) has previously described as facile. I'm cursing the SEO of today, it's taken me down an intense 4 year rabbit hole and cost me a nice used car's worth of delusions and I still have nothing to show the client.

OTOH I've developed a new appreciation for good teaching. These days I tutor the occasional online and IRL student in plant tissue culture and mycology and they're likewise complex fields that basic searches describe as facile ( when they're really not ). I've learned more here in a few months than I have in the previous 4 years and my respect for the skill and knowledge you all share grows daily

[Kinetochore]

Just discovered a short term solution that could yield equivalent results.

There's a free Android App called Manual Camera Compatibility that lets you check if your current phone can accommodate manual over-ride https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... test&pli=1

Turns out my current phone is capable of manual over-ride for focus and a bunch of other things

Shelled out AUD$6.50 for the related phone camera manual app that over-rides inbuilt settings. Manual focus is now entirely under my control

Even if the phone camera lens is scratched or the lens gives results less than fabulous, a newer phone is still going to be cheaper than the Canon adaptors

It'll give me time to play round with the lab results here while I look at other options. I may still take the camera adaptor stack options for reasons I don't grep yet

Thank you everyone

[deBult]

Combined with the L-tube and P-type eyepiece you require :

PM-ADP
P eyepiece
L-tube
Olympus- canon eos adapter like this one https://www.ebay.nl/itm/122637823689
Camera

You do not require a T2 adapter

[Kinetochore]

Combined with the L-tube and P-type eyepiece you require :

PM-ADP
P eyepiece
L-tube
Olympus- canon eos adapter like this one https://www.ebay.nl/itm/122637823689
Camera

You do not require a T2 adapter

Thank you so much ( sorry for delay, got distracted a few days with the bushfires here )

That's a pricey bunch of kit, but you have saved me from further error- and now I can be certain I'll get good pictures- so good

In the interim I'll try the manual focus phone camera software and confirm that I have results for the experiment worth taking pictures of