Another DIC question
Re: Another DIC question
You are probably aware that the objective threads on a reflected light nosepiece might be different from threads on transmitted light nosepiece. There are adapters for such cases.
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Re: Another DIC question
They are RMS threads - according to the seller. I put a bid in for the turret - which I've asked to change to just make an offer...
It will give me something to play with if I get it
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
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Re: Another DIC question
Most models will allow you to pull the prisms out of the light path. The prisms cause unpleasant doubling when they're present in other imaging modes.
I'm a bit curious which model it is, but I can understand not wanting to link it during negotiations as it were.
I'm a bit curious which model it is, but I can understand not wanting to link it during negotiations as it were.
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Re: Another DIC question
I believe it's a dic turret for an Optiphot (M plan), so quite old. There's a thumbscrew on each prism - presumably to move the prisms in and out though I'm not sure.Scarodactyl wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:32 pmMost models will allow you to pull the prisms out of the light path. The prisms cause unpleasant doubling when they're present in other imaging modes.
I'm a bit curious which model it is, but I can understand not wanting to link it during negotiations as it were.
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
Re: Another DIC question
Some allow you to remove the prisms from the path completely, others just translate the prism but don't remove it. The threads for brightfield only objectives are usually but not always RMS, but always smaller than the BD. Brightfield/darkfield are the big ones.
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Re: Another DIC question
The one I'm interested in is RMS. I don't think the prisms are easily removeable. I was more concerned about spacing between the prisms and the objectives and whether I'd still be able to use my CFI60 20x and 40x objectives (with adapters). Also, what would be the best prism to use in the condenser for transmitted light DIC. I suppose, if I do get it, I'll just have to have a play and see what I can do empiricallyeKretz2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:45 pmSome allow you to remove the prisms from the path completely, others just translate the prism but don't remove it. The threads for brightfield only objectives are usually but not always RMS, but always smaller than the BD. Brightfield/darkfield are the big ones.
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
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Re: Another DIC question
It's this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224515344198Scarodactyl wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:32 pmMost models will allow you to pull the prisms out of the light path. The prisms cause unpleasant doubling when they're present in other imaging modes.
I'm a bit curious which model it is, but I can understand not wanting to link it during negotiations as it were.
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
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Re: Another DIC question
That's the one I have. Getting the prisms out requires a bit of effort, the screws are locked in with adhesive. Probably alcohol soluble, or so I have heard after I worked on mine. I got mine out with brute force, but stripped one of the screws so bad that I almost couldn't get it out. So it's probably worth adding a drop of alcohol and letting it sit for a while.LouiseScot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pmIt's this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224515344198Scarodactyl wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:32 pmMost models will allow you to pull the prisms out of the light path. The prisms cause unpleasant doubling when they're present in other imaging modes.
I'm a bit curious which model it is, but I can understand not wanting to link it during negotiations as it were.
Louise
The prisms are not meant to be removable on this model, they are always in the light path.
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Re: Another DIC question
That's what I suspected. When I get it I'll try and use the turret as is - fingers crossed!viktor j nilsson wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:13 pmThat's the one I have. Getting the prisms out requires a bit of effort, the screws are locked in with adhesive. Probably alcohol soluble, or so I have heard after I worked on mine. I got mine out with brute force, but stripped one of the screws so bad that I almost couldn't get it out. So it's probably worth adding a drop of alcohol and letting it sit for a while.LouiseScot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pmIt's this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224515344198Scarodactyl wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:32 pmMost models will allow you to pull the prisms out of the light path. The prisms cause unpleasant doubling when they're present in other imaging modes.
I'm a bit curious which model it is, but I can understand not wanting to link it during negotiations as it were.
Louise
The prisms are not meant to be removable on this model, they are always in the light path.
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
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Re: Another DIC question
Interesting. I haven't tried this model--it's kind of telling that they went from this sort of layout to the (once again I say, mechanically horrible) lever-driven model and then to simple sliders.
This should be a fun project! I'll look forward to your results.
This should be a fun project! I'll look forward to your results.
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Re: Another DIC question
Thanks! Don't hold your breath! I'll be on the case asap. I'll have to do some engineering (=3d printing) in order to try and incorporate the turret into my existing infinity rail system first. An actual Optiphot would be good but they can be quite expensive! e.g. https://www.spachoptics.com/NIKON-OPTIP ... 66-dic.htmScarodactyl wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:48 pmInteresting. I haven't tried this model--it's kind of telling that they went from this sort of layout to the (once again I say, mechanically horrible) lever-driven model and then to simple sliders.
This should be a fun project! I'll look forward to your results.
- especially with shipping and taxes from the US... I'm a beggar rather than a chooser
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
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Re: Another DIC question
This Labophot has the same turret https://www.ebay.com/itm/202652540130?f ... irect=true
Expensive too!
Louise
Expensive too!
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
Re: Another DIC question
And there is volume pricing... three DIC Optiphots on the shelf...LouiseScot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:37 pmThis Labophot has the same turret https://www.ebay.com/itm/202652540130?f ... irect=true
Expensive too!
Louise
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Re: Another DIC question
I modeled an adapter for labophot nosepieces (to put one on a Wild M420 head). It's a bit involved because the dovetail butts up against the slanted nosepiece but I had an original holder to take notes from. I could provide a model of just the nikon nosepiece part if you'd like.
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Re: Another DIC question
All expensive!Hobbyst46 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:43 pmAnd there is volume pricing... three DIC Optiphots on the shelf...LouiseScot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:37 pmThis Labophot has the same turret https://www.ebay.com/itm/202652540130?f ... irect=true
Expensive too!
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
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Re: Another DIC question
Ooh that might be useful - .f3d? (fusion 360). I'll probably be coupling mine to a T2 (M42 x 0.75) threadScarodactyl wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:25 pmI modeled an adapter for labophot nosepieces (to put one on a Wild M420 head). It's a bit involved because the dovetail butts up against the slanted nosepiece but I had an original holder to take notes from. I could provide a model of just the nikon nosepiece part if you'd like.
Presumably one has to make an adapter to this:
Louise
Edit: I'll have a closer look when I get it
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
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Re: Another DIC question
So you already bought it?LouiseScot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:45 pmOoh that might be useful - .f3d? (fusion 360). I'll probably be coupling mine to a T2 (M42 x 0.75) threadScarodactyl wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:25 pmI modeled an adapter for labophot nosepieces (to put one on a Wild M420 head). It's a bit involved because the dovetail butts up against the slanted nosepiece but I had an original holder to take notes from. I could provide a model of just the nikon nosepiece part if you'd like.
Presumably one has to make an adapter to this:
DIC Turret.jpg
Louise
Edit: I'll have a closer look when I get it
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Re: Another DIC question
Yes - I bought an identical one that was on sale in the uk. I should have made it clear that the one I posted a link to wasn't the actual one I was interested in. The one I bought was a lot cheaper! I should get it by Monday, depending on the post...viktor j nilsson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:02 amSo you already bought it?LouiseScot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:45 pmOoh that might be useful - .f3d? (fusion 360). I'll probably be coupling mine to a T2 (M42 x 0.75) threadScarodactyl wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:25 pmI modeled an adapter for labophot nosepieces (to put one on a Wild M420 head). It's a bit involved because the dovetail butts up against the slanted nosepiece but I had an original holder to take notes from. I could provide a model of just the nikon nosepiece part if you'd like.
Presumably one has to make an adapter to this:
DIC Turret.jpg
Louise
Edit: I'll have a closer look when I get it
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
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Re: Another DIC question
Hey, that sounds fantastic! So much better when you can find stuff locally these days.LouiseScot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:18 amYes - I bought an identical one that was on sale in the uk. I should have made it clear that the one I posted a link to wasn't the actual one I was interested in. The one I bought was a lot cheaper! I should get it by Monday, depending on the post...viktor j nilsson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:02 amSo you already bought it?LouiseScot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:45 pm
Ooh that might be useful - .f3d? (fusion 360). I'll probably be coupling mine to a T2 (M42 x 0.75) thread
Presumably one has to make an adapter to this:
DIC Turret.jpg
Louise
Edit: I'll have a closer look when I get it
Louise
I think you will enjoy having these Nomarski prisms to play with. Super happy to help if there is anything I can do.
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Re: Another DIC question
Oh, thanks! That's very kind of you! I'd had my eye on it for a few weeks but there didn't seem to be any interest in it. That may have been partly because the seller didn't say what microscope the nosepiece was for. It took me a while to figure it out for myself. I messaged him to ask if there was anything wrong with it and questioned why no interest. He said he was mystified! Anyway, fingers crossed it is ok. You may remember I've been trying to get the polycarbonate prisms to work on a prototype setup but it's difficult without anything to go by, compare to. The nosepiece might help me. If I can maybe use a polycarbonate prism as a condenser prism, that would be good!viktor j nilsson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:00 amHey, that sounds fantastic! So much better when you can find stuff locally these days.LouiseScot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:18 amYes - I bought an identical one that was on sale in the uk. I should have made it clear that the one I posted a link to wasn't the actual one I was interested in. The one I bought was a lot cheaper! I should get it by Monday, depending on the post...
Louise
I think you will enjoy having these Nomarski prisms to play with. Super happy to help if there is anything I can do.
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
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Re: Another DIC question
I think this might be a great approach: use one real Nomarkski prism together with an adjustable Sanderson prism. Much fewer moving parts than two Sanderson prisms, and much more adjustable than a system with only Nomarski prism. Really loking forward to seeing how this goes.LouiseScot wrote:You may remember I've been trying to get the polycarbonate prisms to work on a prototype setup but it's difficult without anything to go by, compare to. The nosepiece might help me. If I can maybe use a polycarbonate prism as a condenser prism, that would be good!
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Re: Another DIC question
I'll be sure to post if I can get a result!viktor j nilsson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:15 pmI think this might be a great approach: use one real Nomarkski prism together with an adjustable Sanderson prism. Much fewer moving parts than two Sanderson prisms, and much more adjustable than a system with only Nomarski prism. Really loking forward to seeing how this goes.LouiseScot wrote:You may remember I've been trying to get the polycarbonate prisms to work on a prototype setup but it's difficult without anything to go by, compare to. The nosepiece might help me. If I can maybe use a polycarbonate prism as a condenser prism, that would be good!
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
Re: Another DIC question
I share Viktor's optimism, Louise. My expeience with non-OEM prisms has been that placement above the objective is problematic. You need to get both the right shear angles and at the right distance from the back focal plane of the objectives. All in a confined space that doesn't invite DIY solutions.
With the condenser location there's more room and easier placement of prisms. If they're a bit off, the prism can be adjusted in and out and the condenser up and down a bit. Note also that some systems use a slit aperture in this location. With a prism that slides back and forth along the correct axis, at some point you reach the edge of the prism and (effectively) have a slit. In between there are often wonderful DIC, coloring, and oblique effects.
For example, I've been working with a Leica DMLB with a proper "D" prism above the objectives and a design of my own in the condenser. A single sliding prism there provides comparable (actually wider) 3D effects to having the proper K2 and K3 prisms and even approaches K1 at the low end and K4 at the high end. Took a while to find the right prism, though. I suspect your Sanderson prisms, if you can get the shear angles close and the effect somewhat even, might prove just as adaptable.
With the condenser location there's more room and easier placement of prisms. If they're a bit off, the prism can be adjusted in and out and the condenser up and down a bit. Note also that some systems use a slit aperture in this location. With a prism that slides back and forth along the correct axis, at some point you reach the edge of the prism and (effectively) have a slit. In between there are often wonderful DIC, coloring, and oblique effects.
For example, I've been working with a Leica DMLB with a proper "D" prism above the objectives and a design of my own in the condenser. A single sliding prism there provides comparable (actually wider) 3D effects to having the proper K2 and K3 prisms and even approaches K1 at the low end and K4 at the high end. Took a while to find the right prism, though. I suspect your Sanderson prisms, if you can get the shear angles close and the effect somewhat even, might prove just as adaptable.
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Re: Another DIC question
Good point, Pete. It would be wise to put the nomarski prisms above the objective and keep the Sanderson prisms at the condenser BFP. By moving the objective-side nomarski prism, or using different nomarski prisms that differ in the location of their interference fringe, you should be able to match the location of the back focal plane of your objectives really well. This seems to be the one thing that's really hard to achieve with the Sanderson prisms, except for low magnification objectives with BFPs outside the objective. At the condenser side, the BFP is much more accessible.
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Re: Another DIC question
The idea with the sanderson prisms is to use extra lenses in a 2f relay configuration in order to shift the bfp to outside the higher power objectives as per Rathi et al's paper. However, they had a working Olympus with DIC which made it easier to set up. I figure if I have the nosepiece objective prisms in situ then, hopefully, I should be able to confirm operation and correct positioning of the condenser Sanderson prism. If that works ok I should have a better chance of setting up the Sanderson prisms as objective prisms also. For now, one step at a time!viktor j nilsson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:13 pmGood point, Pete. It would be wise to put the nomarski prisms above the objective and keep the Sanderson prisms at the condenser BFP. By moving the objective-side nomarski prism, or using different nomarski prisms that differ in the location of their interference fringe, you should be able to match the location of the back focal plane of your objectives really well. This seems to be the one thing that's really hard to achieve with the Sanderson prisms, except for low magnification objectives with BFPs outside the objective. At the condenser side, the BFP is much more accessible.
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
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Re: Another DIC question
It came this afternoon! Looks ok at a glance - a few small marks on the prisms. Hopefully, they won't be a problem. It even came in a blue Nikon box! One thing though, I can't rotate the nosepiece to select different objectives There is a small, round, central cover which maybe hides a bolt? And, if so, loosening it slightly will do the trick? I've never handled a disembodied nosepiece before so am a bit in the dark... It looks very clean which is encouraging.
Louise
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
Re: Another DIC question
On my Zeiss nosepiece, the central bolt is a "reversed" thread - it is loosened by turning it clockwise, contrary to common screws.LouiseScot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:07 pmIt came this afternoon! Looks ok at a glance - a few small marks on the prisms. Hopefully, they won't be a problem. It even came in a blue Nikon box! One thing though, I can't rotate the nosepiece to select different objectives There is a small, round, central cover which maybe hides a bolt? And, if so, loosening it slightly will do the trick? I've never handled a disembodied nosepiece before so am a bit in the dark... It looks very clean which is encouraging.
Louise
And, if loosened completely, must be done over a towel or a wide bowl, to prevent spreading and loss of the dozens of tiny balls from the inside bearing.
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Re: Another DIC question
Sounds like frozen grease, yeah. Opening that bolt will probably get you in there but there will be a billion tiny bearings exposed as hobbyst said. Proceed cautiously.
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Re: Another DIC question
I don't want loads of mini ball bearings shooting everywhere! I've not tried doing anything with it yet. If I take the central 'cap' off then that will reveal a slotted bolt head? And I could just try slightly loosening it rather than risk taking it out? I messaged the seller and he says its 'brand new' though I guess that just means unused (for whatever reason!). It occurred to me that warming it slightly might be just enough to release it. The seller agreed. So I'll have a go tomorrow
Louise
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo
Re: Another DIC question
A trick that worked for me once was adding a tiny drop of light machine oil along the rim of the moving part, and let it penetrate into the bearing (without warming). Too much oil will make it run too freely, though.